Straight from the Source's Mouth: Frank Talk about Sex and Dating
Are you perpetually single? Do you want longer-lasting relationships? Tired of the miscommunication and misunderstandings? Wish you were better in bed? Advice from experts as well as real talk from real people so that you can see you are not alone in your thoughts and experiences. I talk about sex in my stand-up comedy and people often tell me that I say what they are thinking but are too afraid to say or admit it to their partners; too taboo they think. We'll talk about books we've read on dating, relationships and sex so that you can gain knowledge without having to read all the books yourself. I'll interview people on both sides of an issue: people who are great at dating and unsuccessful at dating...learn from the person who's great and also learn what not to do! We'll do the same with sex and relationships so that you can learn what works so you don't need to repeat others' past mistakes. I'll interview sex coaches and love coaches. We intend this to be a how-to guide. Hit subscribe and join us!
Straight from the Source's Mouth: Frank Talk about Sex and Dating
#66 Ex-Files: Applying the Lessons I've Learned from my Guests
Embark with me, Tamara, and my ex-husband as we navigate the tender and tumultuous waters of a relationship once shared, now a subject of reflection and growth. Our reunion is not just a trip down memory lane, but an intimate dissection of the experiences that drew us together and the struggles that drove us apart. Through laughter and earnest conversation, we shed light on the complexities of love, from the initial spark to the shadows of jealousy and insecurity, and how these forces shaped the course of our union.
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Welcome to the Straight from the Source's Mouth podcast. Frank talk about sex and dating.
Speaker 2:All right. Hello everyone, this is Tamara, and welcome to the Straight from the Source's Mouth podcast. Frank, talk about sex and dating. I'm going to do something a little different. This is what I intend to be a series of talking to exes, starting with my ex-husband, and the intent is that I share what I've learned over the years and how I've grown over the years, and I'm going to kind of do a chronological order, and so we'll see how this goes, and I will not be saying who, but just this is my ex-husband that we're going to be talking. So thank you for joining me.
Speaker 1:You're welcome. Are you happy to see me, or did you just burn your chin on the stove?
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, yeah, so we have this thing where he thinks when my chin is red, it means I'm excited and I just have rosacea. But we can, I just put makeup on it even anyway. All right, so to get started. I just wanted to talk about, obviously I don't know. I kind of want to start like how we started, like we met through my sister, as we know, and you guys went to school together and then I showed up after. Did you already graduate by the time I showed up?
Speaker 1:I'm close to it if I hadn't graduated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then when we actually met because I think you were like towards the end, but I was there for maybe the same time. Anyway, the point is we met right before I was leaving. I had like three weeks left in town, so we both kind of just hung out all the time and said we weren't gonna, this was going nowhere, we're just gonna have fun for the first three weeks and then it was too much, you couldn't leave yeah, yeah, but I mean I don't know.
Speaker 2:So obviously I was very I don't know. I guess what attracted to what attracted. How did we stay together, do you think? Or how do we get together? Because I know I have my ideas, but we'll have, let's say, I hear from you, or like what, what made us work or what made us want to keep hanging out?
Speaker 1:I don't know. At first you were on good behavior. I didn't't see the jealous girl for some time. Once she showed up, it was pretty tough.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, but we were starting in the beginning. So in the beginning it was just weird. Well, we started out just fine.
Speaker 1:We thought it was going to be a fun three weeks, but it was actually a fun couple of years. Yeah, mostly fun couple of years.
Speaker 2:Yes, true, I mean all right. Yeah, mostly fun couple years yes, true, I mean all right, since you brought up the jealousy thing.
Speaker 1:I mean, you are very attractive, some low lows, but the good highs outweigh the good low, low lows.
Speaker 2:It was mutual, we left mutual yes, but since you brought up the jealous thing, I just want to say you are a very attractive person, so, and rather than taking it out on I don't know, I mean people were looking at you and I would get jealous, but you didn't even like know they were looking at you and I would get mad at you for it.
Speaker 1:I didn't know they were present. I was too busy trying to figure out how to get your clothes off.
Speaker 2:Yes, true, and I was clueless and I was sure that whenever women looked I got mad at you and you didn't even know half the time. So well.
Speaker 1:So this brings me to the next girl I dated. She had snakes in her head. They were always telling her things yes, I couldn't date her without your abuse all right.
Speaker 2:So the intent, like I said, of this is to see where I've grown and what I've learned. So I'm going to mention one of the things I've learned.
Speaker 1:Might want to kind of put some blush on your chin.
Speaker 2:This is only going to be on audio, so it doesn't matter for the listeners. Thank you. So yeah, this is going well so far, I don't know. So the biggest thing with the jealousy obviously it wasn't under your control and I shouldn't have taken out on you and it's more about attachment styles and having an anxious attachment style. I felt like I was you were going to abandon me and leave me for these other women all the time. So I was like extra jealous me for these other women all the time. So I was like extra jealous. And there's a book called attached which I have read and now understand that I'm mostly anxious, also somewhat avoidant. This topic has been on the podcast a few times, so you know it's obviously just insecurity and low self-worth and all that stuff which a lot, a lot of women have go ahead a dog that ate my apartment one time when I left it, just because it was anxious true.
Speaker 2:Yes, anxiety is not a helpful trait to have at all times but you had good traits too.
Speaker 1:I will admit there's you. You made up for all the bad things in your own way and they were good and I was always very happy. Yeah, thank you, after I made up for whatever you were doing.
Speaker 2:I know Well, and you did say that once I was like too mean for a while or too much, I would always make it up by doing something nice or sweet.
Speaker 1:Yes, you would do that.
Speaker 2:But I don't know. So one of the biggest things was like not learning like we did the men are from Mars, women are from Venus thing we tried to like. I tried. I tried to understand that as a man you are different than me as a woman and the risk you need respect, like all men need respect, like that's their like, literally the thing that gets men going. But I also didn't understand the cave thing.
Speaker 1:Like as soon as you'd walk in the door I would like bombard you and you needed your space and time to walk in the door and like, adjust to like being home versus being at work well, you're always waiting I know you're always afraid other girls would look at me, but you always make me undress before I came in the door because I was so pretty that hot chick across the hall that would come out and look when he made me do that all right.
Speaker 2:So I'm a bit of a clean freak and he was very dirty cleaning trees or trimming trees, so he literally would have like dirt all over him. So I was like I don't want all that dirt coming in. That, yeah, control freak. I was a freak, so we know this was the operative word is was. This is what I'm trying to share how much I've grown and I no longer try to control everything. And what helped me do that real quick is the landmark forum, as you are aware, and it's a weekend seminar where you learn all about your, your past and your triggers and what um happened for you and I don't know like it goes back to abandonment too, where I, if I controlled it, you couldn't leave me. That's what I, that's what I thought in my mind before. Yeah, I did all this stuff.
Speaker 1:I never. Would have ever wanted to leave you if you weren't trying to bite me all the time, or biting would have been all right, but you were always kicking me or swatting me or something.
Speaker 2:Wow. Yeah, people are going to think I'm crazy for doing this, but I mean, that's kind of the point. Speaking of crazy, if anyone's seen the hot, crazy matrix camera is the ultimate redhead yeah, I think most people have are aware of that, and if not, they can look it up I mean, you are redhead deluxe all right, and I'm not even going to delete this stuff out.
Speaker 1:I'm literally just going to keep it as it is, so people can learn, like how much I've grown since being this way so now you're, uh, eight, nine on the hot scale and instead of being a 15 on the crazy or 12 on the crazy, what? Where are we? I'm much, much lower on the crazy.
Speaker 2:Okay, a little cray, not quite not, it was cray, cray, huh can we just say that we've been divorced a very long time too. So, um, yeah, we haven't seen each other in like what 12 or 15, we don't even know. Yeah, I mean, we talk, yeah, but we haven't seen the other person tamra's one of the greatest women in the world.
Speaker 2:There's no better except my dog all right, let me see where I want to go with the next part, but, yeah, okay. So one of our issues was we were both pretty. I wouldn't say we weren't overly young. We were, like you know, late 20s, 29 to be exact, 30.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we were um we should have been more grown up than we were we were both.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, true, we were not as young in age, but we were young in how we acted. So we were both. Yeah, yeah, true, we were not as young in age, but we were young in how we acted. So we were both very stubborn and we were both like just absolutely had to have our way we were pre-millennials premature millennials.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I would say that one of the reasons to me, one of the reasons why it didn't work, is because you had all that free time. Like we said, we were going to get married, which I gave you the ultimate, and we can talk that too but once we decided we would get married, then I went away for a month for work and you had all that freedom. That's how I think this is where it all started. You had that total freedom for a month of me being gone and you liked that freedom so much. When I came back, trying to be my controlling self, you are not having it anymore and that is where, like, the real struggle started, I think. I mean, it wasn't like you said, it wasn't all bad, but we definitely we went to the counselor.
Speaker 1:We had our hot and colds.
Speaker 2:Yeah, true, I remember we went to a counselor and he said we were like brother and sister and mother and son, because I was like so obviously that combo does not make for a healthy relationship necessarily. But I'm sure we've both grown since then. But, like I said, I'm just trying to.
Speaker 1:It puts a dog in a pen. I was a dog.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, yeah, I definitely learned a lot since then. I've definitely learned a lot since then. I've definitely learned a lot and then, if my intention works, where I have other exes, we can see what they will say about my growth or not. But I would say I have grown quite a bit because, yeah, I don't know. Yeah, all right. So then the other thing that I think I like our communication could have been better Like that's one area which I talk about a lot on the podcast is just, you know, we would rather be right rather than hear each other. So that was part of the issue. Do you have anything to say about that part?
Speaker 1:I'd rather be silent than deal with the aftermath of speaking the truth. The truth hurts that. Who told it?
Speaker 2:yeah, good point, then a lot of men do that for sure. They'd rather just be quiet and like not have to. You know, just act like yep, you're right, you're right, you're right, or just say nothing, like you said yeah, the truth is not not supposed to hurt, hurt to tell her yeah it's, but it it does, if, if, yeah, it can't yeah.
Speaker 2:So the other thing I wanted to bring up was this thing called the imago theory, where it's from the book um, getting the love you want, basically how you are drawn to your caretakers or people that act like your caretakers and I know your, your mom was a little controlling, so it could be the and the Imago theory is that you choose people that remind you of your caretakers so you can heal the wounds, the childhood wounds you've got. So you seek out people that remind you, which is, I would say, one of our things.
Speaker 1:I don't know if it was the other way around, but I don't think that was quite your control, as I remember it wasn't well no, but you were.
Speaker 2:You were drawn to me because you were used to being controlled, not that you liked it, but you were just used to it. Yeah, you didn't necessarily like it at all, but because we want to recreate and that's why we are, like, drawn to each other. That's how people choose each other is. You know they're and you know they could absolutely not want it, but they're just like. That's who you're drawn to. At least that's one theory from. It's called a mago theory, from getting the love you want.
Speaker 2:But, yeah, all right, so I've covered all this stuff. I wanted to say, like you know, in the areas I've grown, necessarily I don't know, do you want to talk about actually, do you want to talk about the ultimatum Cause? I know you said you didn't feel necessarily ready, but I was like I was feeling the societal pressure, not that there is that more anymore, but at the time I was feeling the societal pressure of just, you know, needing to be married and you can share your thoughts on that I could say there is ultimatum and I don't think there was a better girl out there than tamra, and I still don't think there's too many that score much higher.
Speaker 1:Um, I didn't want to lose her, I didn't want her to go away and I wasn't didn't really want to be married, but I sure as heck didn't want to lose her. I didn't want her to go away and I wasn't didn't really want to be married, but I sure as heck didn't want her to go.
Speaker 2:So I guess that's yeah, kind of worked on that yeah, I mean I think you know some be interested to hear people's reactions to this. Yeah, and actually I want to say for the record, the woman that suggested I do like a series like this. She actually I met her in los angeles when I was there for a podcast conference. We happen to sit next to each other and she works for, like, kevin Hart's network and she was a marketing person and she was like oh, you could do a talk to access. I'm like you know, I am still friendly with them, so I should probably do that and I like the idea of trying to show in the ways I've grown and then the tools that people can work through, um, you know, as they go through life. So, and the resources I've found out about, but I'm sure you'd rather talk about sex.
Speaker 1:Oh, we can always talk about that time after your um, your commanding officer's dinner party.
Speaker 2:That was, oh no, that I don't know. That's not talking about sex, though.
Speaker 1:Well, that wasn't sex, but it was definitely a close. We definitely knew we could deal with each other on the worst circumstances All right, so should we do the short version. You tell us If you want to talk about that.
Speaker 2:All right, I'll talk about my version. So my version. We may or may not have been food poisoned by my boss's wife when she cooked for us. All of us went to a dinner and then we only had a one-bathroom apartment. At the time, we literally had to get each other out of there quickly and or apparently you remember it we just stayed in there. Even more close quarters.
Speaker 1:It's like musical poise. You remember it.
Speaker 2:We just stayed in there, close quarters, yeah I don't know if that's something a lot of people want to hear about, but but if we could laugh, how many?
Speaker 2:I have something like that to laugh about yeah, yeah, it's definitely interesting times and he felt terrible, obviously, when we were all back at work and told him that we all had gotten sick from the food. I mean, it tasted great at the time, but yeah, so I don't know. I mean anything. Do you feel like you? I don't know, what have you learned over the years as far as relationships or like what makes them work, because you have a long-term relationship now for like many years?
Speaker 1:we just worked together. We both had needs that the other could fulfill. They weren't all no, they weren't all sexual. They were life matters that we both had the ability. She had a son who was going through some very emotional details and I don't know after tamra I could deal with anybody's emotions, so I think I was able to. She prepared me to deal with a crazy kid. Yeah, it worked out well. He's grown and he's had a baby of his own. We were, we worked together now, so it worked out for the better. I couldn't. I couldn't do it, tamara.
Speaker 2:I'm glad I could prepare you. I couldn't do it with Tamara. I'm glad I could prepare you. And actually I say that to my sister Like I was so mean to her.
Speaker 1:I wasn't always mean to her, but there were times when I was a little mean. Remember when she talked about how she'd leave the house early and you'd just step from the third floor apartment and you'd just throw the trash bag out the window and it would meet her at the floor.
Speaker 2:I did that once because I went. We are three of us were sharing the apartment, her and her friend and I and those two are sharing a room and I had my own and they would not clean up the common areas, which I really preferred. So, yeah, when she didn't, they didn't take out the trash. One time I dropped it when they were going to be passing it so they can put it in the trash, yeah. Yeah, I mean I knew we, I knew this wouldn't all be positive for me, but I didn't think it was. I mean, I definitely did that once and, like I said, I started to say, yeah, my sister, that's why I told her I prepared her for life, because I was rough and, like, hard to deal with. So she had to learn to adapt and became more resilient.
Speaker 1:That's well and after I dated camera, I dated a girl who had some pretty pretty jealous and pretty crazy and she same issue. She ran guys off and I I stayed with her longer than anybody because I I'd stuck it out with tamra for a while.
Speaker 2:I was used to abuse no, you don't mean like oh yeah, cool, all right, this is well I'm.
Speaker 1:I was hoping I would take camera back in any any day. So she's fine. She's crazy, but she's. She makes up for it and she might be better now. Maybe she's not as crazy.
Speaker 2:So she, if you just get to make it up for it, you'd be spoiled well, I would say, yeah, I mean actually okay, so I've grown, but yeah, I still have some areas to work on, but I'm definitely not as controlling. I will say that for sure. For sure, because you can't control others, but I don't know. It stems from insecurity and all the things that a lot of women deal with, because as women, we were especially back in the day, we were like second class citizens and men were the ones that got all the benefits and all the things. And we've definitely come a long way on that. What'd you say?
Speaker 1:yeah, I had to at least tell you you're beautiful at least once once an hour, kind of like low-level employees. You got to at least once an hour. Kind of like low-level employees. You've got to pay them once an hour. You've got to compliment Tamara once an hour.
Speaker 2:I would say all women need that. Not once an hour, that's a bit much, but women are Well. Most women might.
Speaker 1:An hour might be a bit much, but, tamara, it's once an hour.
Speaker 2:In the past.
Speaker 1:yes, Okay, so that's the best that's great there's. That could be proof of growth if it's two hours yeah, maybe longer, but yeah, once a day.
Speaker 2:Okay, I'll, but that's what I wanted to point out. Like women need to be reassured. Like it sounds crazy, guys, don't it? It's like way too much, but that is like what women need to feel loved, like that's how we are and that's what a lot of men don't understand is how much we need it. And they like and I was working with a coach who's been on my podcast and he says that men commit for life and so it feels like failure when it doesn't work out. And they to them, they commit for life and so they've done the thing that shows that they're, that they're in it. But women don't see that, they don't realize that just committing is like what? And just one more sec women, men, committing, don't. We don't see it as like the thing that they're doing, and so we just need the reassurance. And guys don't think that they need to do much more. And that's where a lot of the disconnect comes from, in my opinion and this coach's opinion.
Speaker 1:Go ahead, what were you going to say no? No, I was just listening to you.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay, you put your finger up. I thought you were like going to make a point.
Speaker 1:I was just trying to see if I could frame the corner of the.
Speaker 2:I was just listening to you and bumbling with my hands, so okay, yeah, I literally I thought you were trying to say you wanted to make a point, yeah, so I mean, that's really what I want to talk about, or part of it too, is just the differences between men and women and how just so many people don't get like women want to be heard and seen and understood and men need to be respected.
Speaker 2:And there's another one I'm missing. I should have asked the coach for all his stuff before. But yeah, I definitely, you know, like there's just so many differences and that's why I think the root of most problems is not understanding the differences between men and women goes to why we would need reassurance, because we see everything around us, we notice everything around us and we don't understand that men don't notice everything around them. That's why they can walk over their socks on the ground or whatever, and just they literally don't see it. Because you're like single focused and you have things to do and that's what you focus on. You don't focus on all the little stuff laying around that we, as women, see everywhere, generally speaking. Obviously, not every woman and every man are that way, but generally speaking, that is an issue.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:All right, say it again You're cutting out.
Speaker 1:No, she saw everything, even things that weren't there. Yes, yes, I did, liza. What did you mean with that red hair?
Speaker 2:a little what I missed, that a little something with the red hair a little extra dopamine ah, yeah, all right. So I say we like bottom line, what would you say was worked and didn't work for us? And like what would you say to other people in relationships, or just the first part.
Speaker 1:Um well, I'm not an expert in relationships. The best thing is just to listen and not have your own opinion before you don't act on your own opinion, your own conclusions, before you see it from the other person's ideas. Because, yeah, tamara would have all these crazy ideas that would be going up in her head and I would show up with blood and sweat and tractor grease in my shirt and she thought I was over at my other girlfriend's house, you know, I don't know how, and she wouldn't even let me in the house until I took all those clothes off. I don't know why she'd think another girl would want me like that. And what girl gets tractor grease on you, you know? And I'd have sawdust in my hair. Yeah, I just got back from my other girlfriends, yeah, okay, yeah, it does sound crazy now that you say it.
Speaker 1:So yeah it. So yeah. You just gotta, before you have your opinions, get the facts, know what happened, know what's really going on, not just don't listen to the snakes they talk ah, so you were referring to me needing to understand before, not you?
Speaker 2:well, or you're saying both people should?
Speaker 1:well, both but I. I, when I got home I was ready to see it and happy and see it and see what was going on, and then I'd hear that I was with my other girlfriend or something, or with some other girl.
Speaker 2:There's no way I said that I didn't say that every time did, did I? Well, you said it Only if you were later than you said, only if you were later than you said probably.
Speaker 1:Which was all the time, because I never, because when I never one thing I didn't know about when I started working myself, when a piece of something was going to break and I had to, I just had to fix it. There's just. Oh well, that thing broke, I better fix it. Can't go home until it's fixed, because I can't work tomorrow until it's fixed.
Speaker 2:And then I come home drenched in vehicular fluid and did you let me know you were going to be late, or did you just show up hours later?
Speaker 1:probably just showed up hours later, because once I started work pulling out whatever I had to pull out and fix, I just kind of got into pull it out and fix it mode. Well, I should just say, fix it.
Speaker 2:So I mean, that's one of the issues with the attachment styles If you have an anxious attachment style and someone does not show up as expected, women generally whoever is anxious will make up stories until they show up. So the longer the time it takes for you to arrive, the more stories we have made up in our head about what's going on.
Speaker 1:Wow, man, she and she was good entertainment for herself. She had some good ones.
Speaker 2:As do all anxious people, but like.
Speaker 1:I said.
Speaker 2:That's the point I'm trying to make is that it's a common thing and a lot of guys just think women are crazy. But there's a root cause to a lot of stuff that if everyone understood, the world would be a much better place.
Speaker 1:Probably, but then again you'd be a dude dude. But yeah, well, yeah, I got the other girl that I'm talking about that I dated after you.
Speaker 2:she probably should listen to this forecast because she she made you look like you're pretty calm yeah, well, yeah, like I said, it takes two for sure, and there's always two sides to everything and and the differences between men and women not being understood is definitely a major factor in stuff that could have been prevented. But yeah, needless to say, how long did we make it? Two years.
Speaker 1:Well, two years, but we can still. If we we would. I don't know. I don't think there'd be any animosity or any strangeness if we saw each other in person now we.
Speaker 2:I don't think we'd be strangers at all yeah, I mean yeah, we've, we've, we've talked over the years, so obviously like, but yeah, really, relationship wise at that time for both of us was just not the right time or the right people, I don't know which, but maybe just the time.
Speaker 1:Probably the time.
Speaker 2:Yeah, all right. Well, I'm not sure if I caught the intent of what I was trying to do with this, but we'll see if people find it interesting or not, or if I will do it again or not. But this was the first of potentially a series of talking with exes and I hope you got something out of it. And thank you for being on, and if you liked this episode, be sure to tell your friends about it and rate it as well. All right, well, thank you again. All right, bye everyone.
