Stop Wasting Dates: Read Them Like A Pro #116

What if you could tell in under 90 seconds whether a date shares your core values—or if your communication styles will keep clashing no matter how hard you try? We sit down with business coach and trainer Joe Kavanaugh to unpack BANK, a four-code framework that decodes values fast and reframes dating from guesswork to clarity. Instead of vague chemistry tests, you get a practical way to read tendencies—Blueprint, Action, Nurturing, Knowledge—and tailor your approach without faking who you are.

Whether you’re tired of wasting time on mismatched dates or simply want fewer arguments and more connection, this episode gives you tools you can use tonight. We also share a free link to get your personalized report and explain how to read someone quickly and kindly on a first date. Ready to speak the right language for the right person and choose compatibility with confidence? Hit play, subscribe for more straight talk on sex, dating, and psychology, and share this with a friend who needs a better way to spot a match.

Chapters

• 0:00 Setting The Stage: Dating Smarter
• 0:55 Joe’s Path From Sales To Coaching
• 2:56 Discovering BANK And Its Pivot To Relationships
• 5:41 The Four Codes: Blueprint, Action, Nurturing, Knowledge
• 10:28 Stress, “Dark Sides,” And Compatibility
• 13:43 Applying Codes To Real Relationships
• 17:49 First Dates, Reading People, And The Cards
• 20:31 When Differences Complement Or Clash
• 23:30 From Business Wins To Personal Breakthroughs
• 27:30 Tailoring Communication To Each Code
• 30:26 Tools, Training, And Practical Use

Transcript

Intro: 0:00

Welcome to the Straight from the Source's Mouth Podcast. Frank talk about sex and dating.

Tamara: 0:06

Hello, Tamara here. Welcome to the show. Today's guest is Joe Kavanaugh, business coach, mentor, and trainer. We'll be talking about how to get to know your date's value system and personality tendencies in less than 90 seconds. And that can help you know if your date is a match. Thanks for joining me, Joe.

Joe K: 0:24

Hey, thank you, Tamara. It's an honor to be on your show with you. So I appreciate that very much.

Tamara: 0:29

Thank you. Yes. I'm looking forward to hearing more about the how you can discover this, because I'm sure a lot of people would rather not waste their time and just decide, you know, pretty early on if it's gonna at least potential. Yes, I agree. And how and how how do you how did how either how did you get started in this or how does it work?

Joe K: 0:51

Which one do you want to go with? So um how did I get into this? All right. I have been in, first of all, a little background on me. I've been in sales all my life and very successful at it. I've also been an entrepreneur, I bought and sold multiple successful businesses, and I'm at a point in my life now where I don't need to work, honestly, but I love to help people. So I started coaching. And initially it started out primarily focusing on business coaching, how to help business people get better. But what we started to find out was we were actually helping people with their relationships as much as we were with their business decisions. And when I talk on stage, I often talk about business problems are personal problems, and personal problems are business problems. You can't separate the two, they're intertwined because you you hold them up here. So you take them home with you, you take your personal problems to work, etc. And so a methodology that we found out about, it's a system called Bank. It's an acronym. And the lady that was on stage uh talking about this and selling it, it was a business tool. It was how to relate to people quicker so you can build that rapport faster and close more deals in less time. That was the tagline for it. And I thought I'm in sales, this will help me. And it did. But we soon found out, as I was saying, that it was helping people understand each other. I'm I'm in I've been in real estate a long time, and I had a client call me one night on a Friday, and they said, Joe, we loved what you show told us about this methodology. They each got their reports and said, We're gonna have a date tonight at home and we're gonna read each other's reports. And then they called me two days later and they say it was unbelievable the things that they discovered about each other that helped their relationship. And so at that point, I said, okay, this is as much what helping people save their relationship as it is anything else. So let me just give you a quick introduction of what it's about. There's so many assessments out there, personality assessments, and I'm sure we've all taken at least one or two or three. You got Disk and you got uh Myers Briggs and you got the color code and the animals, everything else, right? Every one of those tests, when I take them, they tell me about me. But Tamara, if I want to ask you out and I want to I want to get a relationship going with you, I don't want to know more about me, I want to know who you are, right? So this lady worked on this and she created this very simple system that's basically reverse-engineered all those other personality assessments so I can find out who you are in less than 90 seconds. How do we do that? There are multiple ways. The easiest way, if we met in person, and I would just say, Tamara, would you do me a favor and play a fun little game with me? Who doesn't like to have fun, right? So, what I do is I hand them these four cards, and if you notice, each of these cards has a set of values on them. And I see that we're backwards here, so if you can read backwards, that's fine. And each one's different, okay? And the reason it's called bank is this is an acronym because there are four personality primary groups. One is the blueprint, and that's the B in bank. And these people, these are your planners. Uh, they want systems in place, they want processes, they want people they can trust, so tradition, titles, duty, all that. They're also risk-adverse, they don't like to take chances. The next one, the A in bank, is pretty much the opposite of the blueprint. They love freedom, flexibility, and oh, and that's the other thing. We use an analogy of a box, okay? The blueprint type person, they stay inside the box because they like to follow the rules. All right, rules are meant to be followed. The action person, which is me, by the way, they say box, what box? You're not putting me in any box. I want to blow it up with dynamite, right? Because they love fun, freedom, flexibility, excitement, uh, winning. They like to be the center of attention. If you know somebody that you uh hear them before they come into the room, typically an action person, right? And the N Bank is for a nurturing type person. These people like authenticity and they like um personal growth and they like working with a tribe. They call their friends a tribe, and they like to give back and support people. Um, they don't live inside the box, they don't blow it up. They're the kind of people that will recycle the box. Those are your real nurturing people. Think sunflowers, you know, golden sunshine, all that. So those are those kind of people. And uh those people, or the action people, they want to break the rules, okay? The nurturing people, they will bend the rules. They'll they got some leeway, they want to support everybody and make them happy. And then the Cayenne Bank, this is your knowledge type person. Now, if you're one of these and you like learning and intelligence, logic, all that self-mastery, you're typically the smartest person in the room. So congratulations to you. However, these people are also the ones that tend to be the wallflowers, they're not, they're kind of not really antisocial, but they don't really like small talk and chit-chat, things like that. And what did they do with the box? Well, without them, you wouldn't have a box because they're the ones who engineered it. They created the box. So you get a little taste of the four basic groups. And I had you do the a quick quiz for me online. We have a link, you can do it online. We just drag the cards into place. And based on your code, Tamara, the way you did it, you're more the uh blueprint, the planning type person, and the person that likes to learn a lot. And you you had said that before we came on the show, we're in the green room, is you you just love to learn things, okay? And you probably have systems in place, you're an Excel spreadsheet type girl or whatever, and you've got that going. Now, the thing to remember is we're not just one or two, we're a combination of all four.

Tamara: 7:10

Yeah.

Joe K: 7:10

So there's 24 different combinations based on these four cards for those I K people that are thinking. And um the other aspect of that is these two types of people that are primarily one of these, these are typically people who are up here in the head. They're thinkers, okay? Uh matter of fact, your knowledge people, they can often get analysis paralysis. They can't make up their mind because they don't want to be wrong. They like to be right about everything. Whereas you're nurturing and your action type people, these are more your emotional type people. They live a little bit more down in the heart. Whereas you're nurturing, they care about everybody. They're into charity, nonprofits, things like that. And the action person is like, wow, we just, you know, if we can break a rule, we're gonna break a rule type thing. And they just they're very emotional. They can fly off the deep end real quick and snap on you at the spur of a moment, and I see you smiling, so you probably know somebody like that. Does this remind you of anybody you know, Tim?

Tamara: 8:10

Well, that's what I was saying early on. Like, I'm so many, like I'm a little bit of all of them. I am that person that flies off the handle, or I can. So I'm I'm a little I I love freedom, it's like a high value for me as well. So I'm like a little bit of each.

Joe K: 8:24

Yes, yes, exactly. As as I am, as we all are. Now you said sometimes you can fly off the handle. Think about a time that you did that. Were you stressed?

Tamara: 8:53

Yeah, I mean, not stressed per se, but like just like upset about the way something was going. So I guess yeah, you're gonna be able to do that.

Joe K: 9:00

Your EQ went low, so emotions ran high, right? Yeah, yeah, a little bit of that. And that lines up perfectly with your coat because one of the things that we tell people when they take the training on this is that third position is typically where you go when you're in stress. And in this case, action was your third position, so you get emotional quickly and you could, yeah. I I'm Irish, I have that Irish temper. Um, of course I've learned to temper it with age. And um, but yeah, that's kind of the dark side, as we call it, to the codes. So the beauty of this is you can figure out pretty much anybody's code, sometimes even before you meet them, if you're trained on it. And when you're trained on it, I should say. But if not, I've brought this these cards to networking events, and as soon as somebody says, uh, what do you do for work? And I say, Well, let me show you. And I hand them the cards. The next thing you know, I've got a crowd of people around me. Hey, can I do that card trick? So it and because that's the thing, so who's gonna do that? Everybody will do it. There's a couple of reasons for that. One, the you who's the subject matter in this case? It's you.

Tamara: 10:11

Yeah.

Joe K: 10:11

And what's people's favorite subject?

Tamara: 10:14

Themselves.

Joe K: 10:15

Exactly. So for that reason. And I always tell them, I said, would just have a little fun with me and play a quick game. And I think most people like to play games and have some fun. So um virtually nobody's ever refused. Oh, no, I can't say that. I've I think I've had two people out of the hundreds, maybe thousands I've done. And both of those were high-knowledge people, and they didn't want to do it because they were afraid it was something that couldn't answer correctly. Uh even though there is no wrong answer.

Tamara: 10:44

Yeah. Well, and and online it was super fast.

Joe K: 10:47

So, I mean, I could see like Yeah, I think you did it in maybe 30 seconds, if that. So, yeah, it doesn't take long at all. Now, how does this tie into dating? What the heck does this have to do with dating, right? It has a lot to do with dating, because you can figure out what your date's personality tendencies are. And let me give you a good example. I found myself divorced at 60 years old. And I thought, okay, well, that's it. I'm done. Well, I ended up meeting a beautiful woman uh very soon after that, and ended up getting married again. And we have a beautiful relationship, yet there were things that before we knew this, there were things that I would do that would irritate her, and I couldn't understand why. And there were things that she did that irritated me, and she couldn't understand why. And this would start your little quabbles, and you know, over time quabbles build up, let's face it, right? And then maybe you don't love them so much anymore, you have your doubts and whatnot. Just happened we got introduced to the system, and we loved it so much that we signed up to become certified trainers in it. So we soon learned, like, for example, she has to plan everything that we're gonna do. This is one of her top codes. When I first saw these cards, I'm like, what's this card doing in the deck? I I threw it, I literally threw it on the floor. I said, I don't like I don't like to plan anything, and that irritates her. I said, How can you just go somewhere like to go train a class full of uh realtors, for example, which I do, and not know what you're gonna talk about. I said, Oh, I'll figure it out as a go. I'll wing it. And that's what your action type person likes to do. And action is her last coat, it's my first coat, so we're total opposites. And once we started sitting down and talking about why we do what we do, it's our personality. The tagline that we use in our training is remember, it's not personal, it's personality. So now I understand why she plans. And the example I used to use a lot, which it doesn't apply so much anymore, but in the beginning it did. Let's say it's Friday afternoon around five o'clock. It's been a great week. I've had a good, successful week, and it's a beautiful evening out. I live in Charleston, South Carolina. And I like, hey, why don't we go out and uh go to a rooftop deck somewhere and we'll sit and watch the sunset and go out to dinner? And she goes, Oh, I can't do that. I said, Why not? Well, I'm not ready. I said, What are you gonna be ready for? Just throw some clothes out. But you know, she's got to do her makeup, she didn't wash her hair, it's all these things, right? Doesn't know what to wear. And that used to aggravate me because I'd like spur of the moment, yeah, let's go, right? And so I learned that to solve that problem, I would suggest it to her maybe on Tuesday or Wednesday, and say, you know what, the weather's looking good Friday. We don't have anything else planned. Would you like to go out to dinner? Then she'll decide on doing it. So this is just a little example of how you can solve fights, problems, disagreements, whatever it might be. And um, it works wonders.

Tamara: 14:02

Yeah. Have you found that it's like as a woman, I could like that's women's biggest complaint. We want men to make plans for us and like make reservations and do a thing. So have you found that that's true to be the man-woman thing, or it can be both sides, depending on your personality, I guess.

Joe K: 14:17

Personally, I've found it to be true. Now, I do know women that are high action like me, and they'll they're like, let's go, but they're typically wearing a hair and a ponytail. Some of them, you know, they think, well, if they do wear makeup, it's not noticeable. So it's just uh what would it be?

Tamara: 14:31

Just a base or natural natural look.

Joe K: 14:33

Yeah, yeah. And uh they're athletic, typically outdoors people anyway, so yeah, they have no problem with it. But um, but the majority for sure, and definitely my wife, she's a true southern belle, and she loves to get made up and look beautiful and all that, and um so that has really enhanced and and caused our love to grow for each other because we know each other better. And um, I was telling you before the show, if I can give you that example of a couple that we know. Yeah, um, that I have a client who lives in New Zealand, and just at the time that we met, I didn't know this at first because we were doing business at first, and then she uh confided in us one day that she says, Hey, I want you to meet my boyfriend, so he got on the Zoom call. And then she told us, she says, you know, when we met you months ago, we were on the verge of breaking up. We just didn't know how to save our relationship or whatnot. And then you introduced us to bank, and all of a sudden the light bulbs went on, and we realized what our differences were and why we were different. And ever since then, they've worked on their relationship and gotten a lot better. That was two years ago, just one month ago, they got engaged.

Tamara: 15:54

Awesome.

Joe K: 15:55

Yeah, so and she just put a post on social media to thank us for that. And I don't want to take full credit, but I do know that this system had a lot to do with that.

Tamara: 16:06

Yeah. Or have you solved has have you been able to help everyone? Like for sure, this can work on anyone, or are there some that are too far gone in your experience?

Joe K: 16:16

Or um I would say a little of both. We can definitely it helps everyone, there's no doubt about it, because again, it's personality, not personal. So when somebody's upset with you or irritated, it's it's because they think differently than you do. And once you can accept that, you're fine. Um, we do have one fellow trainer now, she loved it so much, she became a trainer. When she first joined, uh, she was in a really tough situation. They were on the verge of divorce, but she was afraid to get divorced and didn't know what to do and how to move forward, and it was thinking of trying to save the marriage. And after learning who she was and then learning who he was, she realized it's not worth saving. She's better off divorced. Ended up getting a divorce, and now she'll freely admit this. She was able to get a divorce and turn around a couple years later and buy her own home, which she never thought she'd be able to do because she was stuck under that roof that would just wasn't compatible.

Tamara: 17:18

Yeah.

Joe K: 17:18

And that's the thing, if you realize you're not compatible, it's better to find out sooner than later, isn't it?

Tamara: 17:25

Yeah, yeah. Like some things you can work through with love and all that stuff. But yeah, if it's just straight up misery every day.

Joe K: 17:32

Yeah, exactly. But you know what? That misery can go away. Because again, once uh with my wife, I was it used to irritate me, and that would make me mad. But now I know, okay, no, wait a minute, that's the way she thinks. She doesn't think like me. So I have some empathy for that and give her leeway, and we have the most beautiful relationship I know of.

Tamara: 17:54

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. Very cool. And how how long have you been doing the bank side of it?

Joe K: 18:02

Um we first found out about it in 2019, and we they were looking for people as a small new company, and they were looking for people to help train it and whatnot. And we looked into a little bit at first, and then when we realized, oh, this is pretty solid. So we did, I started implementing into my real estate business, and the beauty of that was I was already a top performer, realtor at distinction, and I was closing on my first appointment, my closing ratio was 37%. The industry average in real estate is around 20, 22 percent. So I was already at the top of the game, right? I didn't I didn't think I need any more tools. So I thought, well, we paid for this, I'll at least give it a go. And within a year, my closing ratio went from 37% up to 86%.

Tamara: 18:53

Wow.

Joe K: 18:53

I was closing like nine out of ten appointments, I was going on. And so I was making more money, obviously, and I was doing it in less time. So it gave me more time to spend with my wife, my family, travel, do the things we want to do.

Tamara: 19:09

Yeah, yeah, if you can say the right say the things that they need to hear, and or don't say the things they don't need to hear.

Joe K: 19:16

Yeah, and that's the thing. I went to a listing appointment. Um, I I do this first thing, and then depending on what their combination is, I can adjust my presentation to meet their satisfaction. Quick example a blueprint person, I want to talk to them about the step-by-step process we have already in place. We have all the systems in place. I can walk them through it, I'll guide them through it, no risk. An action person, if that's their predominant, it's like I'm not gonna bore them with the details. Just cut to the chase, get to the bottom line. I got places to go, people to see, things to do. All right, how much money can you make me on this deal? That's all I want to know. The nurturing person, I'm gonna talk to them about the family values and support. Maybe they're looking to get their children into a better school district, and we can, you know, talk about that and whatnot, and they got a community pool and there's neighborhood things to do, that sort of thing. And the if it's a knowledge type person, which typically says, It's going to be your engineer of people like that, professors, uh, people that just love to learn. I'm gonna give them all the data. They love data. They can never eat it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. And so I'm gonna give those people tons of data and be very matter-of-fact about it. And when you do that, people like people that are like them and they'll work with people that are like them. So simply by just modifying how I present things, it's no manipulation, very genuine, authentic, um, just present it in a different way, they instantly relate and you build that that um that relationship. And it's that's why it works so much better.

Tamara: 20:57

Yeah, and like you said with dating too. If you do it early on, you could have conversations that like just yeah, feel like you're more when you get that, feel like you're in the flow and feel like you're more like meant to be kind of stuff when you're talking the same language.

Joe K: 21:12

Exactly. It's like speak dating.

Tamara: 21:14

Yeah, yeah. And and you say it's not manipulating, like if you know they're if you're if they're different than you and you say stuff that they need to hear, I guess as long as you continue that in the relationship and it's not like so different than you. Like it's more like like if it's a deal breaker verbs is pet peeve. If it's pet peeves, you can obviously adjust, like you're giving her the heads up now instead of being more spontaneous.

Joe K: 21:38

Yeah, absolutely.

Tamara: 21:38

That what that wasn't a deal breaker, but if someone is so different as you're getting to know each other.

Joe K: 21:44

I'll give you a good example. Last summer, not this summer, last summer, I had this opportunity come up from one of my clients who uh runs a fitness uh company, and she was running a three-day uh fitness retreat up in Canada and Banff area in Canmore, actually. And um, I had always wanted to go to the Canadian Rockies, and she gave us a heck of a good deal to go there, right? So we're gonna go hiking one day, we're gonna paddleboard on a glacial lake another day, we're gonna bike uh miles and miles to the mountains another day. I think that's right up my alley. I'm an action guy, love the outdoors, right? My wife doesn't care for any of that. So it was funny because I got off the call with the client and I said, Cindy, I said, um, how would you like to go up to Canada for a few days and see the Rocky Mountains and have some fun? And she goes, What part of that statement do you think I'd be interested in? I'm like, oh yeah, that's right. Your personality doesn't go for that so much. Okay, how can we make this work? Well, you can come up and you can sit in the condo and read a book or you know, whatever, right? Enjoy the fresh air. She goes, tell you what, why don't I stay here and read a book and save some money? Because blueprints like the budget, and you go on the retreat. I'm like, okay, I think I will. So we did that, and we were both happy. She was happy to be alone for a while and and do her thing, and I was happy to go explore the Canadian Rockies.

Tamara: 23:12

Yeah, I can see how that works. Yeah. Very cool. Yeah, and then like on can you see so and you said would you recommend this on a first date, or you think more like second or third date?

Joe K: 23:24

Like if people were to I mean, it depends on you, the personality. Um, based on the codes, I'd say your action person and nurture might be more first date paid before we go and even get started. Let's find out if we're compatible type thing. I mean, you can have that attitude, but you can do it in a number of ways. Um, honestly, once you go through, like we have a two-day training course, we we dive deep into all the codes, and you can really learn and see for yourself what they're like, the differences. And a lot of times you can read people on that first date. But it's good to have the set of cards with you, too. And then you can say, Hey, you want to do me a favor and just play this fun little game? And they don't know why you're doing it. So you've got that advantage right there, and then you could tell them the difference. And it's amazing that I would say 90% of the people they get more interested in you when you when you have something like that.

Tamara: 24:16

Yeah, yeah, I can see that. So it's do you want to yeah? I was just gonna say, do you want to share how they can work with you as a coach or just share how to find out more information about things?

Joe K: 24:26

Oh, yeah, sure. Um, the easiest way would be, well, I'm on LinkedIn, uh social. I I focus on LinkedIn, although I'm on Facebook as well, so you can just look me up, Joe Kavanaugh. Um, if they can write this down or you want to put it in the chat or whatever, um you can go to that website I gave you, or you can share that link too. It's uh basically it's www.crackmycode.com forward slash Joe. It's that simple. And that's gonna take you to a website where you'll see the four cards and you can look at them and slide them into place. Once you do, you can drop down, put your name, phone number, and email in, and click submit. And I control the website, so no spamming. And when you do that, we'll send you a customized 22-page report that's a $97 value. I'll send it for free. And it'll tell you a lot about you and your tendencies, and that's the easiest way to get in touch with me. And if they want to email me, um, the coaching email that we use is c and j coaching at gmail.com, and you spell out and so it's c for Cindy and J for Joe coaching at gmail. Um, and do we have another minute? Because I'd like to tell you another story, how powerful this is. I had a real estate client, an older gentleman, he was actually my age, he was 69, and he um had just lost his wife two weeks prior. And he called me up, he says, Joe, I got to sell my house. I can't stay here anymore. So I went to meet with him and got his personality code, and I was talking to him in his code, and he started going on and on about people don't understand him, they don't know what he's going through because he was so distraught, right? And um, during the conversation, it became apparent that he owned a pistol again, right? Because he talked about shooting his finger off and the hole is still on the wall. He did it accidentally while he was cleaning. And um anyway, um he started saying things like, I'm just gonna take myself out and be and and solve all the problems and everything. So I sat there and I thought about his code and I said, Okay, he's stressed, he's about to jump off the building. I gotta talk him off the ledge. So I did. And the key is you meet him where he's at, and then you can talk him off the ledge, right? So I used the codes in my head to do that through my training, and I turned it around for him. I've also a certified um NLP coach, so I I know a lot of that as well. And I told him, I said, El, I said, I I don't uh understand what you're going through because I've never had that happen to me. Okay, and I my my sorrow goes out to you, and I just I'm not gonna tell you how you I know how you feel because I don't. I said, but I want to know if you would consider doing me a favor. So he was moving to another part of the country to be near the family, and I said, Maybe the the people around you, your family don't understand. But you know what? There's a lot of guys like you out there that are going through the same thing. And I wonder if you consider joining a support group, because nurturing was his primary code. And I said, I wonder if you consider when you get there, maybe joining a support group. And I'm not saying that you need it, maybe, because he didn't want to hear that. But you might be able to help those guys because when they say you don't know what I'm going through, you do know what they're going through, because you're going through it, and you can share your experience with them and you could save some lives. And all of a sudden he stopped and he thought for a minute and he says, Well, I'm not gonna promise anything, Joe, but it's it's giving me something to think about. Well, the next thing you know, he called me back, and I told him right then and there, I said, Look, I can't sell your house right now. He said, What do you mean you can't sell my house right now? You're a realtor, that's what you do, right? I said, Yeah, but you are in no position emotionally and mentally to make this decision. So I'm gonna recommend that you just sit for a while and deal with the situation, and then when you feel the time is right and you're making a a um a logical decision, then give me a call and I'd be happy to be able to be your realtor at that point in time. So literally about six months went by and he called me up. Now he he checked in with me a couple of times in between, and he said, Joe, I'm ready, ready to go. It says, Okay, so went, list his house, and sold it, and he did take my advice, and he joined that support group, and he called me to thank me for saving his life.

Tamara: 29:18

That's awesome.

Joe K: 29:19

So there's the power of it right there between saving that couple and now they're getting married, saving their relationship, and then with this gentleman, I'm not saying I did it, but uh he he's giving me a lot of credit for being implement uh being an instrument of helping him. Yeah, so yeah, that's just a sample of the power. And uh for those who are curious about it, um, there's a couple of things. When you go to that crackmycode.com forward slash Joe, it'll take you to the link. And once you complete that and submit it, it'll take you to my appointment calendar. And then we can have a what I call a discovery call, 15 to 30 minute call where we can learn about each other. Well, you of course you kind of know me now from just listening to me. We can talk a little bit about more who you are and how things can work for you and not work for you. And then if they do want to know more, we can get them into our two-day training. And I'll be right up front with it. It's uh $497. When I did it, it cost $2,000. And it came down because the way things are today on the internet, you got to be competitive. So we've dropped the price, and uh, we can do it online, it's on Zoom. We break it up into two days from noon to five, because nobody wants to sit on Zoom for nine hours. So we we split it up for two days, and uh that's the best way to learn more about it.

Tamara: 30:45

Okay. I was gonna ask for final thoughts, but I think the two examples you gave are kind of like a good final thought. Oh, good. Unless you have more.

Joe K: 30:53

But um, at the moment I can't think of anything unless you've got a situation that you want my input on.

Tamara: 30:59

But uh Yeah, no, I think that was that was pretty, I mean, uh obviously effective. And yeah, yeah, I mean, the suicide is rampant, so that's great that this can help you.

Joe K: 31:08

Yeah, and I hope that's couples out there that are struggling and they're not sure how to solve it. I mean, you obviously you get counseling, but um this could be an easier way to do it, much more cost-effective, too.

Tamara: 31:21

Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, thank you very much. And if you love this episode, be sure to tell your friends about it and rate it as well. And thank you again, Joe, for being on.

Joe K: 31:31

Thank you, Tamara. It was an honor to be with you. Thank you very much.

Tamara: 31:34

Thank you. Yeah, great stuff. All right, thanks, everyone. Bye.

Tamara: 31:39

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