The Simple Communication Reset That Stops Fights #140

A fight can start over something tiny and still leave you feeling wrecked for days. That’s the moment we all get tempted to push harder, talk faster, and force a solution right now. I brought on marriage counselor, therapist, and author Raffi Bilek to slow that whole cycle down and replace it with a communication process that actually works when emotions are high.

Raffi shares the LOVE method for active listening and empathic dialogue. We talk about why explaining, reassuring, or rushing to fix it often makes things worse, and how you can feel connected even when you never agree on the facts. Then we bring these same relationship skills into sex and intimacy, including a gentle way to start by talking about talking so you can lower shame, defensiveness, and fear of rejection.

If you want better conflict resolution, deeper intimacy, and fewer circular fights, hit play. Subscribe, share this with a friend who needs it, and leave a review with the communication habit you’re working on next.

Transcript

Welcome And Meet The Guest

Tamara 0:00

Welcome to the Straight from the Source's Mouth podcast. Frank talk about sex and dating. Hello, Tamara here. Welcome to the show. Today's guest is Raffi Bileck, marriage counselor, therapist, and author of the Couple's Communication Handbook, The Skills You Never Learned for the Marriage You Always Wanted. Thanks for joining me, Raffi.

Raffi Bilek 0:19

Thanks for having me.

Tamara 0:21

Yes. It's always good to hear from experts about especially communication is huge. Lots of people don't know how to do it or don't do it well. So source of many issues.

Raffi Bilek 0:31

Yeah, take some practice.

Tamara 0:32

Yeah, definitely happy to hear. We can either talk about how you got into it or just get right into the book. Wherever you'd like to start.

Raffi Bilek 0:39

Uh up to you.

From Computer Science To Couples

Raffi Bilek 0:41

I I don't have that interesting a story. Uh kind of just, you know, boring. Uh I did start off as a computer science major, which is a little bit atypical. And then I got more into working with people, which are more fun than computers, frankly. Um but yeah, you know, I went to school, uh, started seeing clients, decided that what I really do well, what my passion is, is working with couples. I've been doing that for over a decade, and just trying to reach more people with a message that I think folks need, uh, which is how to how to have these connects these connections and how to communicate better.

Tamara 1:13

Okay.

Take A Break Before You Talk

Tamara 1:14

And what are uh some of the things, or I guess what's the number one tip for better communication?

Raffi Bilek 1:19

Number one tip I tell everybody is take a break. Take a break. So often we are running in and we are totally ramped up, and that is not good for any kind of communication. Uh that's good for arguments, that's good for fighting, that's good for silence, not good for communication. So when you're in a conversation and things start to get heated, that's a great time to take a break. Come on back later. In the meantime, chill out, calm yourself down. It's not an emergency. Um, or if there's something bothering you, you know, because your your partner just came in and they forgot to buy the milk, uh, or because they said something that you thought was not so nice, that's just not the time to talk about it. Because that's when you're really, really irritated. And you'll come back charging. Uh, very few things are an emergency. Uh, and if you wait till the next day, you'll have a much better shot at uh successful communication around that.

Tamara 2:10

Yeah, it's funny you say that because my coworker, she just mentioned that I have to say my piece. Like, I'm one of those people that wants to say it right when I want to say it. And obviously, like you said, it's not helpful. So, is there a tip, especially for like more of the anxious attachment, that really feels like it is an emergency? Like, how can you talk them out of

Managing Timeout Anxiety With A Plan

Tamara 2:29

it? And or help them see that what yeah, no, it's a great question.

Raffi Bilek 2:34

I I got this question a while back, and I wrote a blog post all about this is managing timeout anxiety. Uh, and I think the key is preparation, is recognizing, okay, something will come up and it is gonna be hard. And you talk about it with your partner first, and you say, okay, next time this kind of thing happens, next time I want to talk to you, we're gonna say, okay, we will talk about it later. Um, the more that you get in the habit of talking about it later, the easier it is uh to take the break. If you have no way of talking about it later, then of course it feels very urgent to talk about it now. But if you practice good communication skills, then you say, okay, next time this comes up, I will take a break and I will come back the next day and we will sit and talk about it. And then in that time where you're off on your own, you remind yourself, okay, we are gonna talk about it tomorrow. We've already discussed that. That's part of the plan. We're gonna be okay. Nothing crazy is gonna happen from this. Yes, it again, it feels very urgent, but it rarely is. And you remind yourself of that and you just you just have to talk yourself through it. Uh, and for folks who have anxiety, you know, the all the strategies that you use for that grounding, breathing work, all the kind of things that would keep you calm so you don't run off and start, you know, driving into this problem, which is not gonna get you where you want to go.

Tamara 3:44

Yeah, every time I've tried to like just hurry up and have the conversation, as you can guess. Yeah.

Raffi Bilek 3:50

I mean it's very, very tempting. It's very compelling, especially if you feel anxiety about it. It just doesn't work. Right? I I'm not saying it's wrong. It's a great thing to solve it right away. You just can't. So don't do it.

Tamara 4:00

Yeah. Yeah. It's definitely never been. I mean, unless well, I will say the first time it ever happened where I was very anxious, then we did what you suggested. We said, okay, next time let's, you know, just tell me like, okay, we need time right now. So that's good to know. We're doing it right. And then what are some other like takeaways from your book, or what's the main theme, or how do you want to kind of go by if

Take Turns Speaking And Listening

Tamara 4:23

there are parts or chapters?

Raffi Bilek 4:24

So I'll tell you some of the the groundwork that I think people need for successful communication. So, point number one is we are going to separate this conversation into two. I'm gonna speak and you're gonna listen, and then we'll switch, and you'll speak and I'll listen. But if I'm trying to say my piece and you're trying to say your piece, that does not go very well. That escalates pretty quickly. We all know that, right? You're not like we've all been there, right? It comes into a verbal pingpot. So instead, we'll split it up into one person talks and one person listens, and then we switch. And that way, we have a shot at actually hearing each other instead of just you know butting heads. So that's one part of laying the groundwork. The next part is that there are going to be two separate conversations.

Explore First Solve Later

Raffi Bilek 5:01

In the first conversation, we are going to explore the problem. We are not going to solve the problem. We are not going to walk away from this conversation with a solution in hand. In the second conversation, we'll talk about the solution. But you cannot solve a problem that you don't understand. And yet we try to do that so often. We run in and we say, okay, let's make this problem go away. But what's really the problem? Right? The problem is not that you don't have milk for coffee this morning. I mean, that's, you know, the superficial problem. But really, why does this turn into an argument? It's because I feel like you never listened to me, and my voice is never heard around here, and I'm not important, and you only do what you want to do. Like that's where the pain is. The fact that I don't have coffee this morning is an inconvenience. The fact that I have no voice in this relationship, that's a major problem. And when we don't get into that and we try to solve the problem, we don't come up with any kind of good solution that lasts. And that's why people get into the same argument over and over. Because they think, well, we came up with a solution, but yeah, but you weren't addressing the actual issue.

Tamara 5:53

Yeah. So you're saying the first part of the conversation, the issue comes up, the actual issue comes up because you're discussing it so much, or it's much more likely to, right?

Raffi Bilek 6:02

And we'll talk about how we're going to talk back and forth about it so that we get there. We it it might come up, it might, it might not necessarily, um, but at least we are starting to explore the terrain. And, you know, the more serious and the bigger the problems are, the more likely it's gonna be a series of conversations. You know, people who are parenting together, uh, there are big issues that come up that you do not solve in one night. You know, kids are challenging, very challenging for a long time. Uh, and it's not one convo that's gonna solve that problem. So being able to explore together what is bothering me here, what is hurting me, what are my concerns, and just understanding, again, without trying to make it go away. So when you're talking to me in that exploration conversation, I'm just gonna listen to you and I'm going to apply the four things that will work. There are only four things I can do that are gonna work in that moment. The things that are not gonna work are solving, right? If I try to solve your problem, you come to me and you say, Hey, you know what, I'm worried about uh, you know, little Timmy's uh bullying problem at school, right? So, what will not work is my trying to solve that problem right away. Because again, I don't fully understand what the problem is. The problem is not necessarily that Timmy's getting bullied or being a bully, the problem is how you feel about that and how you worry about your own parenting skills and what the future holds for Timmy and all these things. So there's a lot more we have to figure out before we come to a solution. Uh so I will not be solving, I will not be explaining, right? This is but this happens a lot. You come to me, you come to me and you say, I really don't like the way you said that to me. And so I'm thinking, well, if I just explained to her what I really meant, then she'll feel better. Right? We all know that. We all think that ought to work, and it never works. You know it doesn't work because you tried it. It doesn't work, right? I explained it, but that's not what I meant. It doesn't help. So we're not going to explain either. We're not going to apologize even or reassure, oh, I'm really worried about the test tomorrow. No worries, it'll be fine. Don't worry about it. That doesn't help. Because the problem is you have some feelings that I have not addressed. So what helps? Four things.

The LOVE Method For Listening

Raffi Bilek 7:55

The acronym is Love, L-O-V-E. It's very easy to remember that way. Listening, reflecting in your own words, validating, empathizing. That's it. When you're the listener, that's all that's gonna work to make this better. Everything else will make it worse. Again, you've tried all kinds of strategies, and a lot of them go to pot. Um, but these will help. So when you're talking to me, I'm gonna listen. I'm not listening to react and tell you what I think. I'm not trying to interrupt with my point. I'm not debating you, I'm just listening. And then you say a few sentences about how you're feeling, and I say, okay, so you feel this, you feel that, you're worried about this, and I reflect back to make sure that I get it. Because if I don't get it, we're we're not in a in we're not in a better place. I may think I get it, but if I don't check with you, I don't know. I may even be right that I got it, but if you don't know that I got it, we're still not in a better place. I have to understand your problem, and you have to know that I understand your problem. And then I validate and I say, yeah, that makes sense. I can understand why you'd be worried about Timmy or angry about the coffee or any of those things. And if I don't understand, I gotta go back to listening. You know what, uh, Tamara, I'm really not sure I understand why you're mad at me for tying my shoes. Could you could you help me understand that part? Like I just don't understand it yet. Once I understand it, we can move forward from there. And then I empathize it. I say, oh, that sucks. I'm sorry I feel that way. Yeah, it's so annoying not having your coffee. I get that. So now you know that I understand your problem. I care about your problem. Now we can move forward. And the next step is that I share with you my perception about this issue. Like, I don't really recall you asked me to buy milk. And frankly, I get really irritated when you get mad at me without even telling me what the problem is. Like in all these things, I can, you know, my perspective of it without denying your perspective, but just sharing mine. So once I understand you and I care about you, and you understand me and you care about me, now the solution becomes a lot easier to find. Because we're a lot, we're much more on the same page.

Tamara 9:49

Yeah, I can definitely see where that would work. Because that's I know a lot of women's biggest complaint is like they don't feel seen or heard, and then men don't feel respected, and then it just goes back and forth where you're doing that to each other.

Raffi Bilek 10:00

Right. Well, a big part of that problem is that men are problem solvers, right? This is a a cultural generalization. It's not true for everybody, of course, but there is that sort of cultural meme of the man trying to solve the problem and the woman just, yeah, I just wanted you to listen to me. Uh, and it's true, men feel like if we solve the problem, then we're the hero and we're we're good and we're done with the right thing. So she comes and she says, I have this problem. And he thinks the problem is that there's no milk or that whatever it is. So he tries, he's like, okay, I'll get you milk, no problem. And he runs out and he gets milk and he comes back and she's not talking to him. So, right, because she is upset, she hasn't been heard, and he is frustrated, he tried to solve the problem, he did the good thing, and she's mad at him, and around and around we go. But if we would stop and do those four things that help and say, Okay, I'm gonna listen to you, I'm gonna reflect, I'm gonna validate and empathize, I'm gonna get where you're coming from, this dynamic can be changed. Uh, it takes practice. It's not like an instant thing, but it certainly works a lot better than what most people are doing, which is round and round with the same arguments over and over.

Tamara 10:59

And what if

When Only One Partner Tries

Tamara 11:00

one person wants to solve it and like do the love thing and the other one's not willing or or as willing, maybe, like reluctantly do it?

Raffi Bilek 11:10

Is there so if somebody is not really interested in engaging in the relationship process, it's a challenge, right? I mean, any kind of improvement in the relationship um will only go so far with one person. Often, if one person is not really uh interested, it's because they have their own pain, they have their own frustrations. Most people are not nasty people. So it could be that one person could do it on their own and say, okay, you know, tell me what's bothering you, and I'll listen, reflect, validate, empathize. And I do that consistently for a while, and now the other person opens up a bit a bit more, like, oh, you know what? They actually get me. They're listening. Maybe let me re-engage in this. Uh, but there could be other things going on, there could be long-standing issues, there could just be uh, you know, a lot of difficulty with self-expression. So going to a couples counselor is a great idea. I mean, that's what I do with people all the time, is I help them go through this process. Um, of course, if someone, if if someone is refusing to do that, they have a larger problem. At the end of the day, if you don't want to make your relationship better, it probably won't get better.

Tamara 12:12

Gotcha. And I was gonna say we can could we mention, since this podcast is also about sex, talking about it, or is that too soon and you want to do more about regular communication first?

Raffi Bilek 12:22

Uh I'll follow your lead, man. We can talk about whatever we need to talk about.

Talking About Sex Without Shame

Tamara 12:26

Yeah, I mean, I guess bring it to the bedroom, and then if we have more to say about communication in general, we can go back.

Raffi Bilek 12:30

It's all the same principles. It's all the same principles. This is just a little bit even harder to do, right? It's it's it's vulnerable to talk about how I'm feeling disappointed and hurt and lonely and all those things. But then you go to the bedroom and you're not happy with what's happening in bed, and it's it's very vulnerable. I want more of this, I like this, I don't like that, uh, I don't feel like we're having enough sex, I feel like I'm being demanded too much sex. Very difficult. Same principles apply. Um, it helps if there is a baseline of good communication to try to do this, right? For people who who want to get into this process, which is called empathic dialogue. If you practice empathic dialogue on the smaller issues around the coffee and the dry cleaning and Timmy and all those things, then when it comes to the really sensitive ones, you're in a better place to do it. Like with any skill, you know, before you start skiing a double black diamond, maybe try the green circles. Uh, you know, the easier ones. So, same thing here. Um the other thing that helps is just going really slowly uh and saying, okay, you know what, before we even talk about our sex life, let's talk about talking about it. Right. So I would I would say to people to have an empathic dialogue session about talking about sex. Like, hey, I'm really nervous talking about this. Like, I I'm worried that uh you'll laugh at me, I'm worried that you're gonna be mad at me, and whatever, you know, I'm just feeling these, like I'm nervous about it. And the other partner could say, Yeah, I get that. You you are nervous and you're worried about what's gonna happen, you're afraid of exposing yourself. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I can understand. I'm really sorry that you feel that kind of stress. Right. So now just talking about talking about it, and again, we switch sides. And so now, like, we we've all broached this topic about how scary it is and how uncomfortable it is. And that leads us into being able to, like, okay, you know what? We're both scared, we're both nervous, it's a hard thing to do. Now, now we can get into it, and it's a little bit less scary having dipped our toes in the water. And then again, we keep the same format. You're gonna talk, I'm gonna listen, then I'm gonna talk, you're gonna listen. We're not gonna solve the problem. We are not walking away from this first conversation with a decision to have more sex or less sex or different sex. We're just gonna walk away, understanding you're hurting in this way, and I'm hurting in this way, and we're together in that. Then afterwards, finding a solution to whatever the problem might be goes a lot easier.

Tamara 14:46

Yeah, yeah, definitely. It sounds so simple.

Raffi Bilek 14:49

It sounds very simple. It's very difficult because your emotions get in the way. Um, so again, practicing on the smaller things is is helpful. In the book, there's kind of a ladder of exercises to help people go from the easier conversations to the harder ones. Um, and you know, I I think a lot of people could go through that and really get better at the skills which are are laid out very explicitly in the book, and then go from there to the really hard conversations. But for people who need help, yeah, go to a counselor, you know, people can can reach out to me through the book website, and I'm happy to offer some guidance and getting some practice in those skills. And then, you know, I've had these conversations uh about sexual stuff with uh clients in the room. That's obviously even more difficult. I mean, uh, you know, I here I am a third-party sort of stranger talking about the most private stuff, so some people prefer not to do that. But you can certainly find you know, sex therapists and relationship therapists who will help you have those conversations. The principles are not complicated, but it's hard to enact because we are emotional creatures and it's really it's easier said than done. It just takes practice. Not that I'm perfect at it. I I still mess up sometimes because, again, I am human and I do have feelings, and it's really hard to stay grounded and present when my wife says something that I really object to. But if I am listening to her, I'm in the listening position. I really want to see things the way she sees it. I'm not arguing my point. I'm just being there with where she's at. It's tough. It takes practice, but it makes a world of difference.

Tamara 16:17

Yeah, definitely. Do you want to talk more about like some of the chapters in your book, or do you want to talk about or how to reach you? That's what I was gonna ask. Like how, like you said, your website book.

Raffi Bilek 16:27

Yeah, reachable. So so I have a website, thecommunicationbook.com, and uh people can reach out to me there. And I have the first two chapters of the book are free there. They're on PDF or on audiobook. So if people want to try it out without uh buying it first, they can definitely check it out, see how wonderful and useful it is, and then they can buy it. And if people like hearing me talk, well, there's seven hours and twenty nine minutes of Rafi'll be like talking on that audiobook. So uh lots more good stuff in there. Uh I really do think it'll be helpful to a lot of people. And I think for some people, that in addition to getting a professional on the side to help them through the conversations is important. But I think for a lot of people, just getting the skills laid out for them would be you know really all they need to make this work better.

Tamara 17:09

Yeah, are there other skills that besides the love part, like uh is there another acronym for another section, or is it just is that a lot of people?

Raffi Bilek 17:17

I don't think I have

Speak About Yourself Not Your Partner

Raffi Bilek 17:18

other acronyms in there. Um there is a lot about not just how to listen but how to speak, right? I think a lot of people think that they can just run in and say, here's the problem, here's what you're doing wrong, here's what I don't like. And um what I tell people is if you are talking about your partner, then you are inviting them to argue with you. Because if I say to you, you didn't you did this wrong, I don't like when you do that. So you're gonna defend yourself. You become defensive. It's very difficult not to. So what I tell people to do is talk about yourself. Here's what's going on for me. When there's no milk for coffee, I'm very frustrated. And I really remember telling you and asking you when you go to the store to get some, and you didn't get some, and I'm just very angry about that. So, yes, I referred to you and what you did, but the story is about me. I'm the main character in the story, and I want you to see the world the way I see it and understand what I'm feeling about it. You don't have to agree that I'm right, right? Nothing in L L V E says you must agree with me. We may forever go to the, we're gonna go to the grave forever thinking that I told you to get milk, and you are certain I did not tell you to get milk, and we will die with that conviction. Uh, and yet we can still be in good relationship because you care how frustrating it is for me when I tell you and you don't notice. And I care how frustrating it is for you to be held accountable for something that you were not aware of. So now we both share this trouble together, and that's a relationship. So the more I talk about myself, the more I'm inviting you to care about me and what I'm going through. And that's much better than talking about you and starting up an argument. So that's an important skill for the speaker to have as well.

Tamara 18:49

Yeah, I've done that before where it's just like, all right, let's just agree to disagree. And like you said, it's you're never gonna like agree. So especially small.

Raffi Bilek 18:57

Although when people agree to disagree, they walk away frustrated and they're not, they don't feel much better. Uh, what I want for folks to be able to do is just not worry about agreeing. Right? Like we we don't have to. When you're listening to me, you are entirely in my world. You have divested yourself of your brain and your perspective. You just see the world the way I see it. We've already agreed that you don't have to agree with what I say. The fact that you care that I told you about the milk does not mean that you agree that I told you about the milk. It just means that you understand how I see it and you care about that. We are never, we are not gonna argue about whether I did or I didn't. We are not gonna come to agreement on that. We're just gonna skip that issue altogether.

Tamara 19:34

All right. Yeah, that's more clear than yeah. I can see where it lingers the way I said it.

Raffi Bilek 19:41

Yeah, I mean, agree to disagree is true, but you know, if we focus on the disagreement and how frustrating that is, you walk away not feeling good. If we w if we just sidestep that and I care about how you see it, and you care about how I see it, and we are together in that frustration that at the end of the day, it didn't work out. Ah, that's a shame. That's frustrating for the both of us. We are in connection, even if we disagree. That's a much better outcome than agreeing on things.

Tamara 20:04

For sure. Yeah. Are there other key points you want to say about like for a couple struggling or just the starting the love is like this first person main step?

Raffi Bilek 20:15

I I think that the, I mean, you know, getting

Mindsets That Make Communication Easier

Raffi Bilek 20:17

the communication dialed in will help a lot get through all these things. Um, there's also a chapter on mindsets that help. Uh, and there's some ways to look at that at the relationship and at your life that make this easier. So, for example, your partner is awesome. That is mindset number one. If you are in a relationship, if you're married, if you're committed to this person, there's got to be some stuff about them that's awesome, or you wouldn't be here. And if there really is nothing that is awesome about your partner, maybe you should leave. Uh, I'm not here to make people stay in miserable marriages. Um when you notice and really pay attention to the things that are working and the things that are great about your partner, then the fact that they can never find their keys, uh, or the fact that they're always late. And these things bother you, and they're you're entitled to be bothered by them. It just matters a lot less when you have it in a in a context of all the good things about them. So making sure to pay attention to that. Another important mindset is people make mistakes. Your partner may be awesome, but they're still gonna make mistakes. And if you are holding it against them every time they do something wrong and you're throwing it in their face, like it's gonna happen. You make mistakes, we all make mistakes. And a question I like to ask people is how would you like to be treated when you make a mistake? The answer is never, well, I want I want them to yell at me and put me down. Nobody says that. Nobody says they want their partner to roll their eyes or give a heavy sigh, or no. What you know, when you realize you made a mistake, like uh I I uh I put sugar instead of salt in the recipe, uh, now it's ruined. Right? Well what would you like from your partner? Uh well, don't worry about that. It's it's not that big a deal. We'll we'll figure it out. Don't worry. That's what that's the kind of grace that you want. You ought to be giving that to your partner. So, you know, there's a bunch of other ways to look at life that Will help you with empathic dialogue because if you are insisting that your partner be perfect, then communication is still gonna hit a uh uh a wall at some point. So, you know, in conjunction with some ways of thinking about the relationship plus the skills to make the communication happen, I think it makes a big difference for people.

Tamara 22:17

Yeah, sounds like it. Yeah, I mean uh this I say to look for stuff to be grateful for and that kind of stuff for more of the positive shifts. So makes a lot of sense. So we can either you can add some more stuff from your book or talk about some like the some of the biggest issues you see, or is pretty much communication.

Raffi Bilek 22:37

Um yeah, well, people when people come in, most often the problem they have is communication. Or at least that's what they state. There's always stuff under it, right? Again, the problem in part is that they don't communicate well, but under that there's the problem that I never feel heard, uh, you don't think I'm that important, all these things that are underneath it that they're trying to communicate about, but they end up getting stuck on the on the upper level about like, you know, the kid who broke the vase or whatever it is. But really, it's you know, the kid broke the vase because I asked you to move them out of the room and you didn't listen to me because you never listened to me. And that's really what the issue is. So being able to have the floor with empathic dialogue where you're not gonna argue with me, you're just gonna hear me out and reflect back to me, that helps us get to the point. It's like I'm really mad that Timmy broke the vase. So you understand that for me. And I say, and you know what, I'm really mad because I told you. And so now we get deeper and deeper into these things of like, oh, this is what's actually going on. And that's really helpful because that's where the conflict sits, is underneath is uh these all these feelings that we have about what's what's really going on.

Tamara 23:33

Yeah, and I imagine the repair part, you know, like figuring that out is would help. Do you do you do it? That side of it, like how to get to the other side and how it works, or do you pretty much get people to the repair stage?

Raffi Bilek 23:47

Uh uh I'm not sure what you mean.

Tamara 23:50

Like once they get they start understanding each other and they're getting along better. Do you take it from there, or that's pretty much you're solving that first problem?

Raffi Bilek 23:57

I I I will say that people as long as they they want to work. Sometimes people make, you know, they get back out of the out of the red and they're back at the neutral, but they want to make it awesome. So we'll keep talking about all kinds of things, you know. Um the communication is not just for when something goes wrong, right? I use empathic dialogue for when life is happening. You know, uh you have to go to family reunion and you're nervous about it. Or, you know, you're about to buy your first house together, and how do you feel? And you know, and so communicating, like I'm really excited, but I'm nervous and I'm worried that we won't be able to afford it, but I'm really excited to spend my life with you. Like, it's positive, but I'm letting you into my world, right? And so instead of just skipping it and and back and forth betting the superficial ideas, when you really hear me, we get deeper into who I am and how I see things and how I feel. And that's that's where our relationship lives. Relationship is

Book Links Free Chapters And Closing

Raffi Bilek 24:46

not just two people who go biking together, but it's people who understand each other and deeply share a life together and have a shared vision. Uh, and by letting someone into that, it it moves us not just from fixing the problems, but to deepening the relationship, which is awesome.

Tamara 25:00

Yeah, yeah, definitely. All right. Well, I would say if there's some closing comments or final, which I guess you kind of did just now. So if you consider that that, I mean we can call it good.

Raffi Bilek 25:10

Yeah, I mean, I could talk for hours about this. I think it's important. I think it's good for everybody to work on their communication. You know, I'm still a work in progress, but it makes the makes a world of difference in my relationship that my wife and I can do this. And I've seen it do a lot for couples I've worked with. And I hope that the book impacts people and helps them get the relationships they're looking for.

Tamara 25:27

Do you want to talk about where you find the book or is it the all the all over the place?

Raffi Bilek 25:30

Uh it's on Amazon. You can you can search me up on Amazon, or if you go to thecommunicationbook.com, the link is there. Uh, the free chapters are there. Uh, there's some blog posts and stuff for me. You know, more uh stories and side notes and important things to think about. Uh, and I'm on Instagram at the.marriage.mentor, and just trying to get the word out that uh hey, you can make this better. Okay.

Tamara 25:50

Awesome. Well, thank you very much. And if you love this episode, be sure to tell your friends about it and read it as well. And thank you again, Rafi.

Raffi Bilek 25:58

Thanks so much.

Tamara 26:00

Thanks, everyone. Bye.

Raffi Bilek 26:02

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